Interview with Amy

I ran into Amy at a party a number of months back and asked her about her role in the community as a therapist.  We had shared clients before and I always respected her work. I was surprised that she is no longer doing therapy and that her license was revoked. After listening to why and the story of her journey I thought it important to share with readers.  It is a story of love and redemption where love matters more than fear; a focus on what is gained rather than lost.  Here’s an excerpt of our conversation a few months ago:
 
Me: Tell me a little bit about yourself?
 
Amy: Well, I am a mother (laughter) in transition, I guess
 
Me: Tell me more about transition?
 
Amy:  So it’s interesting.  I just took a walk with a therapist friend. And I kept talking about myself in the present.  It was like, “Well, what I do for treatment plans is.”  And then catching myself. “What I used to do.” 
 
Me: A grieving process?  
 
Amy: Its not really grieving being a therapist.  It’s just what’s coming next because I don’t want to stay in this transition place.
 
Me: Has it been freeing to be unshackled by a role that maybe you in some ways had outgrown?
 
Amy:  I didn’t know that I had outgrown it.  But unshackled is an interesting term.  It’s like, that’s just done for me.
 
Me:  So you’re married?
 
Amy: I have been married for 14 years.  He was an artist, and we met at an art gallery.  He was finishing up his art world at the time and starting teaching.  We married and at first couldn’t have kids.  We went through IVF and now have two boys Dino and Jake.
 
Me:  When did you move here to Asheville?
 
Amy:  Four and a half years now.  The move was really tough.  I remember one time lying in bed and asking my husband, ‘Ok, did we just make a huge mistake moving here?’ And he was like, “No, it’s like we’ve landed and we’re in this big crater.  We’ll get up to where the land is, but we are just still crawling out.”
 
Me: That was okay with him?”
 
Amy:  Yeah (laughs) and it was actually a helpful metaphor for me too. At that time, I found out my brother was a horrible alcoholic, and he was in and out of treatment facilities.
 
Me: You didn’t know that?

Amy:  I didn’t know.  I always knew that he had a propensity to drink and smoke pot but-

Me:  You didn’t know the extent?
 
Amy:  I remember my parents called and were like, “We are coming to Chicago. Your brother is getting out of a 28-day treatment program.” I was like, ‘For alcohol? And I just kept telling them, ‘you are blowing my mind.  What are you talking about?’
 
Me: So family secrets are not unusual?
 
Amy: Right.
 
Me: Some shame, maybe?
 
Amy: Totally
 
Me:  It doesn’t sound like you live your life like that?
 
Amy: No secrets are a big deal to me and honesty is really important.  Because shame is-kind of a life sucker.  I don’t want to carry that any further.  My brother still lives in that shame.
 
Me: Even though he is in recovery?
 
Amy: No he’s not.  He continued to go in and out of rehabs the last few years and my parents, sister in law and I struggled to figure out how to help him.  And we’ve probably done a lot of things wrong with good intentions.
 
Me: So it’s not been easy here?
 
Amy: Moving here has pushed us in these ways that I’m not sure that we would have been pushed in Chicago. Tough, but good. But tough.
 
Me:  Can you tell me more about this?
 
Amy:  I had a client who I started seeing three years ago.  From the time she was in kindergarten to the end of her first grade year, and then made the decision to become her foster parent. 
 
Me:  So you had worked with foster care children for years and hadn’t ever wanted to adopt anyone?
 
Amy: Well my husband and I had talked about adoption (in general) when we found out we couldn’t have kids but then decided to try IVF and got pregnant with our sons and were like, ‘we don’t need to adopt.’
 
Me:  You were happy with the way things were?
 
Amy:  Totally. And then Issy came along.
 
Me:  There was something about her and her story that touched you?
 
Amy:  She did.  Which I didn’t even really realize that she had while I was seeing her.  I mean there’s a sweet, pure, sense about her for sure that I have always recognized.  But, I never (thought), “Oh man. I want her to be with us.” (Laughter).  I never thought that about any client.  It was really after a couple of conversation I had with the foster mom that I was like, ‘Oh this kid is going to be screwed.’
 
Me:  I remember you had mentioned to me (at the party) that the foster mom was of the mindset that medication was needed as a behavioral control?
 
Amy:  The foster mom always wanted to get her more meds or up her dosage and the social worker (through DSS) and I did not think this is what she needed. The social worker and I had talked about, ‘is this a good fit for this kid?’ But it is difficult to find a home for foster care kids and nothing outrageous seemed to be going on in the home.
 
Me:  You provided therapy with this goal (of the foster mom adopting her) in mind and then what happened?
 
Amy:  One day I had a conversation with the FM and it became clear that she wasn’t going to adopt her.  So I asked, “Are you still going to adopt her? And she said, no.” She had been living there for years thinking this family was going to adopt her.
 
Amy:  So after that conversation a few days later the FM called me up and said that Issy had spilled paint in her room or threw paint.  She made it sound like there was paint everywhere so I asked her to send a picture.  And she kind of back-peddled.  And was like, ‘well it happened a while ago, but she needs more medication.’ I got to thinking that there is something going on here, and it’s not ok. It felt wrong.
 
Me: She made up( the story) to try to legitimize?
 
Amy:  Getting more medication. So that weekend I talked with my husband and said I think we need to step in and become her foster parents.
 
Me:  So that was a defining moment for you.

Amy:  Yeah.  And so my husband and I talked about it over the weekend.  And gosh, I find myself shivering as I talk about it.
 
Amy:  And then on Monday, I went to talk with her DSS social worker and told her that the foster mom doesn’t want to adopt her and she was like, ‘What?! After all this time?
 
Me:  There wasn’t a lot of hope for her being adopted at that time by anyone?
 
Amy:  No. The DSS social worker was like, This is very upsetting for this kid as there’s just some claims that the foster mom had made all along, that it is hard to know if it’s true or not but it is documented. So she didn’t look great on paper (and her chances of being adopted by someone else were slim).
 
Me:  So you had talked to your husband and he was in agreement to foster and maybe adopt too?
 
Amy:  He’s a big softie and fights for the underdog.  That is what he does in his job. I wasn’t surprised that he was on board.
 
Me:  So at that point, you talked to your husband, and then went to the DSS worker and told her your intention?
 
Amy:  Yeah.  She was excited.  She was like, ‘that’s great.’
 
Me:  So it must have been the beginning of the road?
 
Amy:  Yes, so I called a couple of folks to make sure that it was on the up and up. I spoke to the clinical director where I worked and he was positive and excited and he suggested I call the certifying board for my licensure to make sure this would be ok. So I called the board and talked to the Executive Director.  And I called my malpractice company and told them.  All the official people. 
 
Me:   So what did the board say?

Amy:  They said, ‘we can’t advise you what to do.’ But if there is a complaint filed, we will need to investigate it so make sure that you seek consultation and document everything pertaining to this.’
 
Me:   So you did?
 
Amy:  So that is what I did.  I saw a fellow therapist for consultation about it and we talked about how this would impact my family and my relationship with Issy. 
 
Me:  And at this time you were no longer her therapist?
 
Amy:  Right, the foster mom actually moved to a new Agency at that time.
 
Me: Did you tell Issy or the foster mom about your intention of Adoption.
 
Amy:  The foster mom was positive to my face about the idea of fostering Issy but behind my back she really tried to sabotage it time and time again. 
 
Me: Even though the DSS social worker was advocating for you and thought this was in this kids best interest?
 
Amy:  Right and the GAL (Guardian Ad Litem) was supportive as well.
 
Me:  So the fostermom was ready to give her up at this point but didn’t want you fostering or adopting?
 
Amy:  She wanted to take it upon herself to find placement for Issy
 
Me: What are your thoughts on this?
 
Amy:  It must have just been a threat to her.  Of course it wasn’t what I intended. I was thinking, ‘Look if you’re not going to follow through with this then I will because otherwise she’s going to –‘
 
Me:  Devastated?
 
Amy:  Yes, devastated and put on the page of available children and at this point she’s eight and it’s hard for folk to want to adopt an eight year old who has been in foster care since they were four or five.
 
Me:  So you ended up being the foster mom?
 
Amy:  Yeah, so after a hiatus of being out of the picture for awhile (with me having consultation around fostering and adopting and Issy moving to another Agency for therapy) she came to our home in April for visits and then moved in with us June of last year.
 
Me: Was she excited?

Amy: Yeah, all she wants-not all she wants, but she wants to be a part of a family.
 
Me: As all kids in fostercare want.
 
Amy:  That sense of belonging. Her great grandfather had been there for her before placement but didn’t have the means to take care of her.  He was really poor, older and not in good health.
 
Me:  Four years old is when she went into placement?
 
Amy:  She lived with her parents first, and then she was removed because of domestic violence. The GAL told me that this was the first time that she 100% believed that it was a situation unfit for a child to live there.
 
Amy:  She loved her great-grandfather though. He is the only person she talks about.
 
Me:  So she has had a lot of abandonment.  That’s detrimental to anyone’s psyche.
 
Amy:  Yes
 
Me: It sounds like she has made progress with you. 
 
Amy:  She has.  I’m putting pieces together in a different way in terms of what she has been through and how it’s impacted her and what she needs and will continue to need from us.
 
Me:  It sounds like you are on board to step into what you need to do as a mother? Does she know that the adoption is coming up?
 
Amy:  She does.  She’s not like, ‘Wooh! I am getting adopted!!’ But instead says, ‘Yeah, I am excited about it. When is it going to happen?’  I see some caution there.
 
Me: Maybe it is the unknown?  The known entity for her is abandonment. And change is difficult even positive change.
 
Amy:  We had an argument one day and I said to her that night that sometimes moms and daughters argue and fight.
 
Me:  Was this the first time you argued?

Amy:  No but I responded differently.  It was like a switch went off in my head that maybe she was pushing me as she does with all mother figures and I could choose to respond differently.
 
Me:  You don’t have to be the perfect parent?
 
Amy:  Right and a realization about attachment issues and primal wounds.  Stuff I have been reading about.  My husband had said to me earlier that ‘you are going at it from the wrong door.’ This realization too.
 
Me:  So in some was you have been positioned with armor as a therapist (and he as an EC teacher) that other adoptive parents haven’t had the benefit of?
 
Me:  Do you have a good rapport with her therapist? 
 
Amy:  I do. Despite her therapist being the one who kind of got the whole ball rolling for me to be investigated.
 
Me: So the therapist (at the new Agency) felt that there was a conflict of interest with you wanting to adopt a child that you used to do therapy with?
 
Amy:  Well the way the therapist put it to me was she had told her supervisor in conversation that I wanted to be the foster parent and the supervisor was like, ‘Oh, well that’s something that we need to talk with the clinical director about.’
 
Amy:  Later in conversation with the therapist after everything happened she was like, ‘I am so sorry.  I didn’t mean for that to happen.’ I told her that ‘it’s ok, it’s time for me to move on.’ In April (2016) around the time the therapist went on leave for the summer the clinical director called and asked me, “What’s going on?”
 
What is odd to me is that while they started the internal investigation at their Agency around my fostering and adopting, they had a lame therapist take over for the main one while she was out on leave instead of doing intensive in-home as was originally planned.  At one CFT meeting they rationalized this by saying, ‘Well it is no problem that Issy doesn’t having consistent therapy right now. You’re a therapist.  You’ll be able to handle this over the summer.’
 
Me:  You’re kidding?
 
Amy:  I said to them at the meeting, ‘No, no, no, no.  You’re not going to put me in that spot.”
 
Me:  So they are going to report you for a conflict of interest yet they are suggesting this kid doesn’t need intense therapy because you can handle it??
 
Amy:  Right
 
Me:  So you had the boundaries all along.  And the bigger finger pointers were going to cross those boundaries.
 
Amy:  So the regional director called and told me that they were going to report it.
 
(After the Agency filed a complaint with the licensing board, the board decided to revoke Amy's license for five years.).
 
Me: Do you think because this Agency is a big player in the State of NC with clout that they influenced the board in their decision? If they questioned it, maybe it is questionable.
 
Amy: Yeah, it could be.
 
Me:  Do you think this would have happened in Chicago?
 
Amy:   It is hard to say.  Based on what I know practicing in both those places, I don’t think so.  But it’s hard to say.
 
Me:  Do you think that kids in placement tend to be highlighted more?
 
Amy:  Yes, totally.

Amy:  The foster mom had always told Issy not to tell anyone at school.  Of course the teachers and the school knew.  One day I was walking her into school and a friend asked, ‘Who’s that?’ and I answered, ‘I am her foster mom.’  Issy gave me a look and the friend said. ‘I didn’t know you were in fostercare!’ and then told her that she knew people in her own family that did fostercare.
 
Me:  So it was a normalizing moment.
 
Amy: Yes and this is one of her best friends today.
 
Me:  So I guess that I have one more question. Do you think that when something devastating like this happens to lose your license for five years and you decided to give it up for good that even though it is bad maybe in some ways it is also freeing?
 
Amy:  Mm-hmm
 
Amy: What goes through my mind is my relationship with my brother.  Because that is something I have had to unshackled myself from.  In my own therapy last year I worked on letting him go.  When I saw my brother the last time he basically told me, ‘Just never have anything to do with me again.’
 
Me:  For your own protections?
 
Amy:  Yes for my protection but at first I didn’t see it as such.  I was thinking that that was the biggest asshole thing to say. 
 
Me: But it was a gift
 
Amy:  That is how I think he meant it to be.  So this has been similar to that and I think, ‘I can let that license go and know that it’s ok.” It was just a part of who I was for a time.  If I can let go of my brother, then I can let go of a license.  That is tiny compared to my brother.
 
Me:  What’s next?
 
Amy:  My husband and I are starting an educator teacher parent store that focuses on providing resources for the homeschool population with an after school component. Between the two of us we have a lot of years and degrees pertaining to the welfare of children. 
 
Me:  That’s cool.  Thanks for talking with me, Amy.

Issy's adoption was finalized on 3/6/17